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Post by Ben Herrington on Feb 5, 2010 17:16:47 GMT -5
No I'm not talking about their program...
No I'm not talking about thier coach...
No I'm not talking about small school size or lack of home field...
I'm talking about 8-man Football in Santa Rosa. Though I would like to use a number of terms that involve swearing, I'll just say, What the heck??
RVC's goal was to enter NCL II play for the 2008 season, and that they did, in fact, they finished 5-4 on the season with a 4-2 league record and even made the NCS Div. V playoffs!
Whats their revolation (no pun intended) for the 2009 season? 8-man ball.
2008: 5-4 (9 games)
2009: 3-2-1 (6 games)
So number 1, lack of games.
Location of these 6 programs they played:
1) Chico, CA (Northern Section)
2) Hillsborough, CA (Central Coast Section)
3) Virginia City, NV (NEVADA!)
4) Antioch, CA (NCS)
5) Shandon, CA (Southern Section)
6) Madera, CA (Central Section)
So number 2, lack of home games.
How about number 3, travel costs.
RVC's enrollment has been steady for years and their normal 11-man football program was doing just fine, in fact, better than just fine with Bob Cazet making things happen.
Taking RVC out of the NCL II and playing 8-Man is one of the worst ideas I've every heard when it comes to Empire Football.
Anyone have anything to say?
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Post by bella on Feb 5, 2010 18:29:01 GMT -5
Actually RVC's enrollment has dropped pretty low (just barely above 100 I think) in just the last few year. Sign of the times. Private schools are seeing their numbers drop due to the economy. Peolpe are not able to afford to send their kids toa private school.
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Post by Ben Herrington on Feb 5, 2010 18:42:57 GMT -5
For this season, their 9-12 enrollment is 165. Though it is low, take a look at the other NCL II programs:
ANDERSON VALLEY 159
LAYTONVILLE 136
POINT ARENA 189
POTTER VALLEY 96
ROUND VALLEY 105
TOMALES 169
CALISTOGA 254
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Post by scobserver on Feb 5, 2010 19:31:52 GMT -5
It's time for the coaches and administrators to chuck aside their egos and do what's best for the kids. For most of the NCL II schools, that means 8-man football. None of those schools really have the turnout to justify 11-man...due to inevitable injuries, kids quitting midseason, etc., they almost always barely field 11 toward season's end. Didn't Anderson Valley this past season forfeit a playoff game, because they did not have the bodies?
I say RVC's decision is prudent for the school and beneficial for their students--more (or at least some!) subs, healthier players (8 man has less reliance on giant linemen), more competitive teams. The only drawback, as Ben points out, is lack of nearby competition. Easily solved--next NCL II meeting, everyone agree to go to 8 man!!
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Post by Ben Herrington on Feb 5, 2010 22:44:16 GMT -5
Though we disagree overall, sc and I do agree with there being a lack of competition. I thought about the idea of everyone in the NCL II going 8-Man, but then we would still have a relative problem.
Only a few teams around that would be difficult to still keep a 10 game season. As it sits now, the budget just doesnt justify traveling everywhere else to play 8-Man ball, which is something alien to Sonoma County.
I dont want to imagine how much RVC spent on travel expenses just to play 6 games. All those away games against far away schools must not be to the liking of their parents.
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Post by bella on Feb 5, 2010 22:58:00 GMT -5
Before the 09' season, Cazet said the high school enrollment was at 102, down from 177 the previous year, hence the move to 8 man.
sc I can see what you are saying about competivness. However what would that do for NCS playoffs. There is no 8 man division. Some of those NCL II schools have a pretty strong playoff history. Tomales 5 titles, won 2 in the 00's. Pt. Arena title in 04' lost to SV (16-14) in title game in 05', Calistoga won title in 99'. I think in some of these smaller communites a NCS title means maybe a little more than say to a school from a larger city.
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Post by Ben Herrington on Feb 5, 2010 23:41:04 GMT -5
very true bella. Laytonville played for a 4-4 season this year with eleven players. I couldnt imagine playing on a team with that drive.
RVC can make it happen with just a little more enrollment. With 165 they should be fine.
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Post by scobserver on Feb 5, 2010 23:53:37 GMT -5
bella, it's a matter of how much a possibe--perhaps--someday--section title is worth. Balance that against your students in years of miserable lopsided games, slogging through each season with barely a dozen players; the worst part is, by mid-season, several kids should be sitting out being so banged up, but keep playing out of feeling obligated because there would be no team if they didn't! Noble, but not in the students' best interest.
There is no reason why an "8 man" league title can't be pretty darn satisfying--that's what everyone aspired through the '70s. Potter--Laytonville--Round Valley--Calistoga--face it, for them a league title would be achievement enough! Besides, there are other 8 man leagues, no reason why NCL II champ can't arrange a post-season game against one of their champs (except it doesn't fit the CIF/section format, but screw them.)
Tomales is the only NCL II school with consistent history to justify 11-man game. For the rest, a 7 team league is 6 league games. In old days, schedule was supplemented by playing a couple league foes again, once as a "practice" game, which is not ideal but works. Non-league games against East Bay/Penninsula schools are no more silly than the big schools chasing games to Sacramento and beyond. As for 10-games: with their tiny rosters, NCL schools should only be playing an 8 or 9 game season anyway, students too vulnerable to injuries, regardless if playing 8 or 11 man. If any teams need bye weeks, it's them.
I still say the primary obstacle to 8 man football is the ego of coaches and administrators, who don't want the "shame" of being associated with 8 man football! It can work, but they don't want to try.
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Post by dynomite on Feb 8, 2010 14:23:46 GMT -5
Will the proposed 2012 realignment have any effect on this? Are they planning on making the NCL II an 8-man Football League? If thats the case, they wont look that foolish and someone will be eating their words.
Fact is, with declining enrollment, the NCL II is becoming a very hard league to field a team and be competitive on a consistent basis. Kudos to Coach Felicino(sp?) at Tomales for doing it year in and year out. His success is a direct reflection of that. The rest of the teams just cant do it. So I think its the best way to keep competitive sports going at the smaller schools.
It will greatly effect the Div. V play-offs, but lets face it, thats only a two horse race with St. Vinnys and St. Elizabeth anyways. No disrespect to the other teams.
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