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Post by gator19 on May 2, 2010 22:07:50 GMT -5
False information being provided. Piner has not resisted anything to this point. We have a meeting next week with our two AD's and football and basketball coach to decide what we want to do. We have not even decided within yet. (okyouright)Also mentioned was if the change came it would only leave two DIV 3 teams in the SCL. Elsie Allen and Piner are both Div 3 which would elevate the DIV 3 count to 5 teams along with Sonoma, Petaluma, and Analy. There are currently only three Div 3 teams in the SCL. Let it play out before stating what has not actually occurred.
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Post by okyoureright on May 3, 2010 11:48:03 GMT -5
False information being provided. Piner has not resisted anything to this point. We have a meeting next week with our two AD's and football and basketball coach to decide what we want to do. We have not even decided within yet. (okyouright)Also mentioned was if the change came it would only leave two DIV 3 teams in the SCL. Elsie Allen and Piner are both Div 3 which would elevate the DIV 3 count to 5 teams along with Sonoma, Petaluma, and Analy. There are currently only three Div 3 teams in the SCL. Let it play out before stating what has not actually occurred. Has Petaluma been bumped down without my knowing? They have always been in the same playoff bracket as the Casa's and Windsors. So they need wins over schools of the same size get playoff bids. Am I wrong?
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Post by gator19 on May 3, 2010 12:37:00 GMT -5
Petaluma and Piner have been bumped down to Div 3 this year. Healdsburg and El Molino have been bumped down to Div 4. Santa Rosa was bumped down to Div 2. These were based off enrollment numbers from last year.
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Post by Ben Herrington on May 4, 2010 20:34:32 GMT -5
I'm not sure where you're getting your information but I've checked with a number of ADs in the NBL and SCL and the ONLY school holding up the league realignment for 2011 is Piner.
With Piner's AD being the Baseball coach, I assume he would be thinking in his teams best interest to remain in a traditionally tough baseball league. Problem is Piner has not been in the race for a league title for years. This is nothing against Piner's AD, but when 14 of 15 schools are pushing for this and one isnt, theres got to be a reason why.
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Post by coachbrown on May 11, 2010 12:14:56 GMT -5
With the financial state that athletics are in, I see the move of placing Casa in the NBL as insane. Athletic programs up here are basically going to have to pay for themselves, and the plan is to extend the distance of travel to Petaluma?
Geography needs to be more of a consideration when costs are so prohibitive. Any reason...
Ukiah Healdsburg El Mo Windsor Cardinal Newman Piner MC
Santa Rosa Elsie Monty RC CG Petaluma Analy
wouldn't work?
Send Sonoma to Napa?
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Post by Ben Herrington on May 11, 2010 19:43:32 GMT -5
With Justin-Siena being in the MCAL I dont think the NCS really cares.
The NBL and SCL control the same area but the MCAL has its own area as do most leagues. With general location taken into account, I think it should be considered how big the schools are.
I think putting all the Div. II schools in one league is a great idea. Its unfair for Div. III and Div. IV schools to be required to play much bigger programs within a league. Its also unfair for the Div. II school as an upset loss would hurt their playoff chances significantly more than a loss to another Div. II program.
I wonder what the NCS if thinking of doing for the 2012 season.
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Post by 4thqtrcomeback on May 11, 2010 20:40:53 GMT -5
Ben has the right idea. The travel involved however you configure the the NBL & SCL is still pretty minimal.
Take the NCL schools for example. St Vincent's closest league opponents are St. Helena and Cloverdale. They also travel to Clear Lake and Upper Lake in league.
With that said, I think the goal is competitive equality. Besides, if it comes to it and schools want to shut down sports programs, most football teams and boys basketball teams would be self sustaining.
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Post by scobserver on May 11, 2010 22:46:36 GMT -5
The NCS seems to have only considered football for proposed changes ...
reading the minutes for the Sports Advisory Committee (whatever that is) on the cifncs.org site...3/8 meeting, Attachment Q..
says comissh Gil Lemmon specifically suggesting--several times--a football only solution. It was termed "cross league" scheduling. It even shows all ncs standings for last season.
I am not a big fan of CIF and NCS management, but I sure like this suggestion--it addresses the immediate pressing problem, which is just football, and makes no unnecessary changes to the other sports, which will be addressed soon enough in regular re alignment.
Ben--how do you know that the SCL and NBL ADs are actually going even further than the NCS, allegedly wanting to shuffle schools for all sports?
I wonder if your sources are more based on wishful thinking by a few "power school" ADs who are eager to get rid of Allen and thereby not be "hurt" in the ridiculous playoff seedings system.
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Post by Ben Herrington on May 11, 2010 23:00:20 GMT -5
I was tipped off by one of my buddies who referred me to an AD. I spoke with a number of ADs and all schools but Piner are apparently behind this realignement for all sports. Afer speaking with several ADs and another coach and receiving the same answer that everyone but Piner was behind it I decided to take it as creditable info.
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Post by bella on May 12, 2010 3:03:23 GMT -5
Just curious, what is a "power school?"
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Post by scobserver on May 12, 2010 8:01:27 GMT -5
power school my way of referring to stronger programs, ie Newman, Monty, Rancho....i think that while Ben has authentic and close friends and contacts among some schools (Newman, most obviously) I wonder if these contacts overstate things in suggesting to Ben EVERYBODY supports this. And if others are just being polite which is interpreted as supportive.
at any rate, look at the entire NCS football standings...I have a brilliant idea.
A football only conference consisting of:
Piner Elsie Allen DeAnza-Richmond Richmond Kennedy-Richmond Hercules San Rafael Mission San Jose
Eight programs that have not won a league title in a quarter-century or more and little chance of ever doing so again .....and one of them GUARANTEED to win a league title in this setup! And others would have a winning record in league--something else these schools rarely achieve....(only DeAnza has had a successful run within the past three decades, about 12 years ago). Maybe throw in Redwood or El Molino in lieu of Mission San Jose.
Schools in their "old" league can have another non league game. Solves problems up and down the section.
This is brilliant, I can't compliment myself enough for thinking of it!
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Post by 4thqtrcomeback on May 12, 2010 9:40:55 GMT -5
scobserver.-
I don't like your idea at all. It does not address the problem with having El Molino in the SCL. El Molino has won 21 league games in the past 20 years, so their average league record is 1-5 in this time. Only one of those years, have they been over .500 in league (4-3 in 1997).
Piner on the other hand has won 41 league games in the last 20 years. The teams that suffer the most in order are Elsie, Elmo, and Piner. If you don't change El Molino, you are not fixing anything.
Is your plan really about doing what is best for the kids, or it is about keeping your beloved SCL in tact? AGAIN, Elmolino a D4 school with 864 students, should never be in a league with two D2 schools such as Casa and Windsor with 1909 and 1781 students respectively.
Of coarse you did not add El Molino into your above plan because that would make the SCL a 6 team only league, and would only give the SCL five league teams.
The original stated proposal needs to happen for competitive equality. Take Sonoma for example, in 2006 they were playing three D2 teams in their preseason in Montgomery, Carrillo, and Ukiah, and another solid program in Sacred heart. Just last year they played San Rafael (D3), Terra Linda (D3), Vallejo (SJS D3), and Dublin, a weak D2 school. Obviously, they feel these are teams they can better compete with year in and year out due to enrollment. Sonoma has already moved towards D3 schools in their preseason. Analy plays D3 schools in their preseason too (Terra Linda, Piner, and San Rafael).
There is a reason why Casa Grande almost wins or wins the SCL every year. There is reason El Molino is last in league almost every year. They should have made the move below in 2008. It makes too much sense. You need to take the emotional ties out of it and think of what is best for all teams or at least the majority. The numbers are not biased and certainly don't lie....
Santa Rosa - 1998 -D2 Casa Grande - 1909 - D2 Windsor - 1781 - D2 Rancho - 1771 - D2 Montgomery - 1756 - D2 Ukiah - 1683 - D2 Maria Carrillo - 1590 - D2 Newman - Private - D2
Petaluma - 1385 - D3 Sonoma - 1320 - D3 Analy - 1281 - D3 Piner - 1242 - D3 Elsie Allan - 1223 - D3 El Molino - 864 - D4 Healdsburg 797 - D4
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Post by dynomite on May 12, 2010 12:24:18 GMT -5
I agree with 4th Qtr's solution. It keeps teams local and evens out the enrollment/competitive field. Plus everyones happy during NCS Seeding time. And I would think its a relatively easy solution.
I still dont agree with the Piner and El Molino bashing. Just cause they have lower enrollments for their leagues doesnt curse them to last place. Healdsburg has the LEAST amount of kids in Sonoma County and they are always competitive. I think these schools just need the right people in charge and then they can make it happen.
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Post by bella on May 12, 2010 17:51:23 GMT -5
Personaly I wouldn't mind seeing something like this. First off I think 8 team or even 7 team leagues are too big. There is a better chance for a wider gap between the top teams (ie. Super Powers") and the bottom teams. I think 6 team leagues are ideal. It gives a little more flexibility with pre season match-ups, you wouldn't have to lose rivalry games, Egg Bowl, Apple Bowl, etc
Competively I think most of these teams would match up well in football. Almost all the schools would be in the same c-bed division or fairly close.
It keeps the league fairly local (Ukiah and JS being the only teams outside Sonoma Co.)
(A) Ukiah (D-II) Windsor (D-II) CN (D-II)* Monty (D-II) Rancho (D-II) Casa (D-II)
(B)
Carillo (D-II) Pet (D-III) Sonoma (D-III) Santa Rosa (D-II) Piner (D-III) Analy (D-III)
(C)
Cloverdale (D-IV) Healdsburg (D-IV) ElMo (D-IV) Elsie (D-III) St. Vincent (D-V) Justin Sienna (D-IV)
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Post by scobserver on May 12, 2010 18:01:18 GMT -5
Actually, I think my proposal IS in the benefit of the students. It groups eight programs that perpetually lose and gives players on all those teams a chance for quick success. Correct, it does not "solve" el molino and yeah, i have a soft spot for them--maybe Lions join the NCL I for football only. Maybe Allen and Piner join NCL I for football only, too. I do hope the other schools I mention can get relief somewhere--most face daunting problems even more formidable than at Elsie Allen and need an immediate break.
The key to an immediate solution is a "football only" conference. I'd be fine with 4th quarter's plan for this coming fall even, tho i guess it is too late. It is the same configuration that Piner is supposedly the only holdout. If so, then maybe Piner would be in favor of it were it just for football only in 2011. And then let realignment assign schools where they may the following year for all sports. Which, yeah, likely means the breakup of the SCL as I know and love it.
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